Kevin

That was "Boston" by Irish singer-songwriter Dermot Kennedy and I'm very excited to be joined here in the studio by Dermot ahead of his sold out gig tonight at Baby's All Right. Dermot, welcome.

Dermot

Hi, how are you doing?

Kevin

Really good. How were all the festivals and the shows that you've been playing here in the States? You did a couple out in California, right?

Dermot

Really good. Yeah, we got here last night from LA and did two shows in LA and then in the middle of those two we did a festival in Tennessee, Bonnaroo. So that was brilliant, yeah.

Kevin

But it's not the first time that you've played shows here in the States, right?

Dermot

No, well it was the first time playing a headline show. There were times coming out writing and recording and that kind of thing but it was the first time we had probably put tickets on sale for our show and that kind of thing and it sold out.

Kevin

There's a song on this new EP Doves And Ravens called "Boston." What's the story of that?

Dermot

So when I was 19, in 2011, I went to Boston for the summer. I got a visa that loads of Irish college students get called a J-1 and you can basically come over to the States for the summer and work for three months. So, I went to Boston with a few of my friends and we all went looking for jobs and then I realized I couldn't do anything except play music. [laughs] So, I went busking first in Boston Common then to Harvard and you needed licenses and that kind of thing. So, I went to Newbury Street and that's where I settled in the end. It was perfect. So, I spent the summer there and it was basically the best summer ever.

Kevin

You've done a lot of busking in Dublin, right? It's a much bigger thing there I think than here.

Dermot

Yeah, it's kind of changing all the time. I mean, back when, say, Glen Hansard for example, was starting out, he did it in doorways with no amps, and he didn't plug it in at all or anything. And like, people would gather in really, really close so I think it was cool then. Then, when I started doing it, I tried to do that and then realized the street is just so busy and there's so many people playing that your voice just gets torn up after about like an hour. So, you have to have gear and that kind of thing and so I did that. And yeah, I mean, it was great. It funded time in the studio and that kind of thing so I mean, I'm glad to not have to do it anymore.

Kevin

How did it differ in Boston than in Dublin? Are people more receptive in Boston?

Dermot

It's way nicer in Boston. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like, weather wise, it's way more predictable, especially in the summer. In Dublin, there's like one street where you can go, and there's like five spots and there's about 30 people who fight for those spots every day. So yeah, you'd be there at like seven in the morning to play at like eleven. So, it's really competitive. Whereas in Boston, everyone was just chilled out and everyone was really generous and stuff.

Kevin

Speaking of busking, Ryan Sheridan, who's Irish as well was in town last week, and he tells a story about how he was busking, and his future manager dropped his business card in with the money, and how that led to his quick success, in air quotes. When did you start busking?

Dermot

I think the first time I went I was 17. And then, like, as you progress, you learn different things about busking, like, I bumped into this Australian guy and he basically gave me a lecture on busking and to get a huge sign with good artwork and to get a rug that takes up a serious amount of space. So basically, get better equipment and all these little things you can do to basically make yourself – you're basically trying to get people to stop. And so, there's some people who have it set up in such a way that their thing is so eye catching that before they play, they already have a crowd, right? Because on the street it’s just a constant stream of people. So, if you can, you're basically trying to get like a huge crowd of people to stop the flow of the street. So, it's really difficult to do, especially just when you have a guitar, so you have to do all these little things.

Kevin

So you developed a bit of a visual identity just as sort of a necessity, right?

Dermot

Yeah, there's a friend of mine who is a really, really talented artist and she did a big sign with loads of artwork and then like stuff for CD artwork. That's where you kind of do it where you sell CDs.

Kevin

How did it influence you musically early on? Do you have to try to get people's attention? Does that affect how you actually write your songs or do you just play them and hope that people will stop?

Dermot

That's interesting. Yeah, I think about that sometimes. [Busking] the whole day of trying to be heard, am I more inclined to write things in a higher register now because you're so used to shouting in the street? I'm not sure. I hope not. But yeah, it definitely helps you as a singer, because you're just more concentrated on trying to be sort of remarkable to get people to stop. So I feel like it influenced me in a way for sure, yeah. And it just makes you a tougher musician and more used to just not being worried about just setting up and playing and people just walking past.

Kevin

I had the English electropop duo Oh Wonder in here a few months ago and they were talking about how they moved from being really a studio project on their first record – really just the two of them behind the piano – to expanding it to more of a live band. Like, they have a song on their new album that's with a full band done in one take so they're trying to be more spontaneous. You've kind of gone the other direction where you started out busking and you've incorporated more hip hop and electronic elements into your music. It's a little bit more studio focused. Is that fair to say?

Dermot

Right, yeah, for sure. I mean, so there's like, there's three standalone songs on Spotify and then there's the EP I released earlier in the year and the three from before are pretty acoustic, they've got some strings, some piano, some drums. It's all live acoustic stuff, though. So, they have that feel. Then, just as I went on, the first song that I recorded for the EP was called "A Closeness" and it just has this super heavy beat in it that comes in in the second verse, third verse, and I did it with a guy called Carey Willetts in London. It was just so exciting when it started to take shape like that. It wasn't even a forced thing we didn't even want to, he just kind of had that idea. So, I was like, do I – because I did have that debate in my head. I was like, do I want to continue doing the acoustic thing that I've done for a really long time? Or do I want to continue to be excited by this kind of thing. So it was just, yeah, it was just a lot of fun and I think that probably started, kind of sent me down the path of that sound, and that kind of thing. So, the other songs kind of took that shape, too.

Kevin

So you just kind of ran with that?

Dermot

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I did have that debate in my head. But I was like, it's just way more, it was way more exciting for me. As someone who has kind of gone through the process of doing tons of acoustic gigs and just playing your guitar for people and that kind of thing, it was just more exciting, musically, and even now in live scenarios, it's more fun too.

Kevin

Did you start out with a beat first or were you still on the guitar or the piano?

Dermot

No, the song existed but like a guitar and vocal and we even had the two versions and we were weighing up which was better, which is kind of the best way for me to work, I think. I mean, it's fun to try and start with a beat or that kind of thing. But, I mean, I'm still a songwriter at heart so I still need that song to be the bones of it, I think.

Kevin

Do those songs work acoustically as well? The newer ones, because you mentioned you with the band? Can you strip them back?

Dermot

You can for sure. I mean, it's not something I'm super keen on doing because I always want to present it the way it should be. Like, I want it to be the best it can be. But yeah, like I said, the best way for me to work is to have a song and then build from there musically, like put things on it and if they don't deserve to live there you take them off, but it can exist acoustically, yeah.

Kevin

You mentioned the songs that are on Spotify right now and you've done really well on Spotify with about a million and a half listeners per month last time I checked. Playlists have been a large part of that. I mean, they're kind of the main way that people find new music nowadays. Do you feel like if someone found you on a playlist versus maybe hearing you live or out busking, do you think they'd be more likely or less likely to buy a ticket to a gig? Do you think they’re less [likely] because if you're on a playlist you're among other artists, right?

Dermot

Yeah.

Kevin

Do you think that makes a difference versus if they saw you out and about?

Dermot

I do, yeah. I think that was one of the things that was on our mind when we even booked the shows here, in New York and L.A., because all the plays were there on Spotify. But, no one really knew whether these were just people hearing it and then moving on or were they actually intent on buying a ticket. So, we put on these shows in L.A. and New York in smallish venues like 300 people. And thankfully, they sold out, I think in the first day, and so it's just really reassuring and exciting to know that all these people who are hearing it are staying with it and are willing to go out and actually see it.

Kevin

Did it surprise you that the gigs sold out?

Dermot

I mean, I can't lie. With all the plays and that kind of thing I wasn't shocked and also in terms of people getting in touch on social media. You can kind of gauge it, I think.

Kevin

Speaking of playlists, Gary Lightbody from Snow Patrol put you on a playlist of his favorite new Irish music. Whenever I listen to your music, I'm always reminded of – it has a sense of urgency that reminds me of "Run," the great Snow Patrol track. An example of it being in, you mentioned, "A Closeness," which is a song from the new EP, there's a lyric "gather courage, if you're doing something, do it 'cause she got to go soon." Is there a reason for that recurring theme because it shows up a lot and even "An Evening I Will Not Forget" kind of has that feel to it. Is that something that you go back to –

Dermot

In terms of the actual lyrics?

Kevin

Or just as a theme? It seems to pop up quite often.

Dermot

I mean, yeah, there's certain things because, even in the last year or so, I've been writing with a lot of people and writing probably more consistently than I have done in the past and you kind of see these things pop into your head more often. So, I guess yeah, it's not even a conscious thing but probably just through the process of writing all the time and kind of breaking it down, it's a thing that probably comes about a bit, yeah.

Kevin

There's also a track on the new EP called "All My Friends" and there's a lyric that always stands out to me for some reason, it's "songs and cathedrals in month three," which is kind of a weird sentence just in terms of the syntax of it.

Dermot

Right.

Kevin

Are you influenced by literature or poetry or do you just like playing with language? Because it's not something that you would say.

Dermot

Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm glad you picked up on that because that's like probably the most sort of self serving line and the whole thing. Yeah, it's like, it's a totally private, personal thing and I remember kind of writing before and I put that verse together and the guy I was working with was [laughs] kind of like the same thing. He was like, "what the hell does that mean?" Because when you're working with someone, you're trying to figure out where you're what you're both working towards.

Kevin

Like, do you mean March? [laughs]

Dermot

No, no, not even! [laughs] No, it's like a crazy, crazy personal thing. But, I mean, I think that's so important. I think it's about striking a balance. You can be relatable all the time but if you've got that moment at a show where you can be the only one in the room who knows what that means, I think that's cool, too.

Kevin

As I mentioned, you've incorporated more hip hop, electronic influences on this. Who are you trying to channel with that? Is there anyone in particular who's influenced you?

Dermot

I mean, yeah, I often say, if someone asked me straight up, probably the simplest way to break down my influences are like 50% listen to Bon Iver all the time, 50% hip hop, generally like, J. Cole, Drake's not pop stuff, like album tracks, that kind of thing, you know, and Kendrick's new stuff and everything like that. I mean, I never want to take it too far and think I'm like that at all. [laughs] Yeah, but production wise, it's fun and I think it's kind of starting to play a part but naturally.

Kevin

Despite the change in the sound that you've had from the earlier work to the new EP, there are still lyrical themes that again, touching back on that, show up in the newer songs and the older ones. How new are the songs on the new EP? Within the last year?

Dermot

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, "Glory” ended up on the EP kind of last minute. I went to Toronto for a couple of days and that song kind of came about. It was totally unexpected, but it ended up being one of my favorite ones on it. But yeah, they're all pretty much new songs.

Kevin

Do you have a favorite off the new EP?

Dermot

Probably... different reasons for all kinds of ones. I probably feel most comfortable when I play "Boston" live and I don't mean comfortable in terms of easy it just kind of puts you in a really nice place.

Kevin

Going back to particular lyrics, which I'm sure you love to explain your lyrics [Dermot laughs], but there are things that I hear from newer songs and older ones that I've just always wondered what they're about. So in "An Evening I Will Not Forget," there's a lyric, "I wonder if I could let her down," and then in "All My Friends" you say "so letting her down, no, I won't be" – was that the same story?

Dermot

No, it actually wasn't. I mean, no, totally separate and from two super different events in my life. But I mean, the sentiment is the same, I guess. Whereas like "An Evening I Will Not Forget" is probably my favorite song I've ever made because I was listening and watching an awful lot of Def Poetry at the time on YouTube and I was just kind of jealous of these guys who have to work within – like they have to still be in time. Obviously, that's so important but they can spill over and they basically get to say every word they want and I don't get to do that because I need to be in time and work with the music and all that kind of thing. So, I basically wanted to write a song that was like a little mini poem and then I wanted it to rise in intensity and that kind of thing. So for me, it's my favorite song.

Kevin

Were you always a writer when you're younger? Like besides songwriting? Did you always write poetry or interested in that?

Dermot

No, I mean, definitely interested but I guess when I was 16 I just started writing songs. I didn't think about it. I wasn't someone who was obsessed with like learning every instrument since the age of five, that kind of thing. I just, basically, instead of trying to be like a virtuosic musician, which I wish I was, I mean, I just kind of consider myself someone who was able to write things and write songs and then get them across.

Kevin

Islands, fires and family –

Dermot

Mm, I like that song.

Kevin

– are things that come up quite a lot [Dermot laughs]. "Island flames" you mentioned in "Boston."

Dermot

Yeah.

Kevin

"For fires and family" in a track called "The Killer Was A Coward," which is on YouTube and then a song called "For Island Fires and Family." There must be a story about that.

Dermot

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's the thing I can't explain. My auntie, she lives on an island called Inishmore, which is Irish for Big Island and it's just off the west coast. It's actually probably the closest thing to here. But, that's where she lives and she's super musical. She's just an incredible singer and me and my family just go there kind of like once or twice a year, I wish it was more often. But basically, it's a really important place. It's this beautiful, beautiful place, there's only like, the population is tiny and it's just a super rugged place. It's so good.

Kevin

In terms of your next steps, is there an album on the way or are another EP?

Dermot

I mean, we're kind of taking it as it comes. We're going to put a single out in the coming months and then, I mean, it's in a really good place because it feels like there's such a connection between me and whoever's listening that we're just kind of taking it as it comes. I've got tons of songs and so when the time comes to make an album, I'm really excited, really sort of confident, especially with the people I know I want to work with and that kind of thing. So, I'm really, really excited about that. But, there's music on the way. I mean, probably a single as the next thing this summer.

Kevin

And then in terms of a U.S. tour, would that follow soon after that?

Dermot

Yeah, I think so. I mean, this was kind of like to test the waters and see if people cared. [laughs] So, yeah, definitely, it's in the plans to come back sooner rather than later.

Kevin

Well, clearly people do care because you're playing a great show tonight at Baby's All Right and I believe it just sold out and you released a couple more tickets and then that sold out as well.

Dermot

Yeah.

Kevin

So, I'm sure it'll be a great gig and thanks so much for coming in.

Dermot

Nice one, thank you.